Wednesday, October 05, 2005

First Piglet, Now Saint George

English Flag courtesy of

While we are engaged in the (somewhat humourous) defence of Piglet and his friends we note a flanking attack on Western civilization by English Muslims. You see, we may jest but they are deadly earnest. From World Daily News: (Hat tip to Kathy Shaidle at Relapsed Catholic).


English flag offensive to Muslims? Officials worry prisoners might associate red cross with Crusades Posted: October 5, 2005 1:00 a.m. Eastern © 2005

Prison officials in Britain are concerned that tie pins worn by officers featuring the St. George's Cross - the symbol on England's flag - could offend Muslims who might associate it with the Crusades of the 11th, 12th and 13th centuries. In a report on "race" in a jail in the northern English city of Wakefield, Chief Inspector of Prisons Anne Owers said the banner of St. George, the red cross of a martyr on a white background, could be "misconstrued," CNN reported.

English soldiers adopted the symbol during the military expeditions by European powers to recapture the Holy Land from Muslims. It later became the national flag of England. Owers' report said her staff was concerned to see a number of prison officers wearing the pin.

"While we were told that these had been bought in support of a cancer charity there was clear scope for misinterpretation, and Prison Service Orders made clear that unauthorized badges and pins should not be worn," she said, according to CNN.

The red cross is an insensitive reminder of the Crusades, said Chris Doyle, director of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding. Doyle thinks England needs to find a new flag and patron saint "not associated with our bloody past and one we can all identify with."

"A lot of Muslims and Arabs view the Crusades as a bloody episode in our history," he told CNN. "They see those campaigns as Christendom launching a brutal holy war against Islam. But as Robert Spencer shows in his book "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) , the aggression was not unprovoked.

In obedience to core teachings of the Islamic faith, Muslims armies overran the predominantly Christian Middle East, then drove deep into Europe long before any Crusade was even contemplated. Doyle insisted, however, that "Muslim or Arab prisoners could take umbrage if staff wore a red cross badge."

"It's also got associations with the far-right," he said. "Prison officers should be seen to be neutral."

Prison officers should be seen to be neutral? Prisoners could take umbrage!! Not being allowed to wear one's national symbol because a criminal finds it offensive because of what happened, or did not happen, a thousand years ago? This is not tolerance. It is dhimmitude, (abject submission of non-Muslims to Islam) pure and simple.

Let me propose a scenario.

Let us suppose that a Christian citizen in a Western country objects to the display of the Islamic crescent, on the grounds that it is an offensive reminder of the brutal campaigns waged by Islam over 300 years, as they conquered the Christian Middle East and attempted to conquer European Christian civilization. Such a person can muster objections to the public display of the Islamic crescent that are equally, if not more, valid to those posed by Muslims in their objection to the English flag today.

Do you believe it reasonable that a Christian should voice such objections and expect public officials to act on them by removing of all articles/displays indicating Islamic belief?

If not, why not?

Think of the sheer arrogance involved in the comment by Chris Doyle who. "thinks England needs to find a new flag and patron saint 'not associated with our bloody past and one we can all identify with.' " How about George Galloway MP holding a white flag of surrender?
"There is a religious war when two worlds meet; that is, when two visions of the world meet; or in more modern language when two moral atmospheres meet. What is the one man's breath is the other man's poison; and it is vain to talk of giving a pestilence a place in the sun.

(G.K. Chesterton in The Everlasting Man, 1925)

Maybe it's time to slay some more dragons. Onward Saint George!


At 11:39 pm, October 05, 2005 , Blogger bob said...

John, it's time we stopped being sensitive toward people whose stated goal is our destruction. And that's the kindest thing I'll say.
As a Yank, I admit I can't get quite as worked up about the cross of St. George, but there's a principle involved here and the Brits must stand by their principles.

At 12:33 am, October 06, 2005 , Blogger John the Mad said...

I couldn't agree more.

I'm a Celt and am more drawn to the Crosses of Patrick or Andrew, than the flag of the Sassenach. But I'm 100% Canuck and the Maple Leaf is my flag (with the Red Ensign close to my heart, as well.)

I can't even imagine my reaction if someone were to tell me to take my country's flag down because an immigrant found it offensive on religious/historical grounds.

The heavens would split open, the ground would shake and swallow the idiot that told me to take it down.

Seems to me you Yanks are partial to Old Glory. At least that's what I've heard.

Reminds me of that song by Jerry Jeff Walker. As I recall,

"I believe in being gentle to people, but sometimes you gotta get their attention. Give 'em a swift kick to the crotch."

Like I said, it's time to start slaying dragons.

At 2:22 pm, October 06, 2005 , Anonymous Felix said...


This sort of objection by some minorities that Canadian (or American or British or French) important cultural symbols are inappropriate or insensitive happens all the time. A few years back here in Manitoba they were trying to refer to the Christmas tree in the Legislature as a "Holiday Tree" and strip it of any its real symbolic significance. Fortunately, the Premier, even if he is a Dipper, came out a couple of years later and made it clear that the tree was and would remain a Christmas Tree.

If these groups are so offended by our important cultural symbols, like the Cross of St. George or the Christmas Tree, why did they come to Canada or America or Europe in the first place?

At 7:43 pm, October 06, 2005 , Blogger J C said...

John, anyone who has studied Islam knows Mohammed was a murderer who converted Christians and others to Islam by threatening death at the hands of his army (usually decapitation of the men witnessed by the women and children of the town)to those who refused.

I hope those concerned understand Islam is not a true religion; only a way to wreak destruction and disaster on Jews and Christians. That's why Mohammed thought it up in the first place. That's a matter of record.

At 4:26 am, October 07, 2005 , Blogger Chris said...

They're going after the english flag now? there no rest for those who wish to destroy everything good and glorious about Western Civilization? If Muslims find the Cross of Saint George offensive which has been the flag of England for centuries maybe its time they got the heck out.

At 6:05 am, October 08, 2005 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Liberal immigration policies allowed the infidels in a once Christian country with the sins of abortion, euthanasia, pornography, divorce, etc. You get the picture, they are a scourge for the infidelity of christians (all) to God's commandments. Wake up and do penance or we will all die.

At 2:46 pm, October 11, 2005 , Anonymous c matt said...

Chief Inspector of Prisons Anne Owers said the banner of St. George, the red cross of a martyr on a white background, could be "misconstrued,"

Yes it could - but by her, not by the Muslims. It has been so stripped of its original meaning by the Western Intelligentsia (much like our American motto of "In God We Trust") that I'm surprised anyone would object at all. Ironic that its enemies take it more seriously than its purported subjects do.

At 3:33 pm, October 11, 2005 , Blogger John the Mad said...

c matt:

I agree with you. The problem is not that the flag will be misconstrued, but that it will be construed.

It is a noble flag created for a noble purpose. (I can't believe I am defending the flag of the Sassenach, but there you have it.) We either defend our civilization or it will perish. wll

At 8:20 am, October 20, 2005 , Blogger Mr G said...

Piglet's bacon may have been saved after all.

After a public outcry about the banning of toy pigs and Piglet mugs from its offices, Dudley Council's leaders are reviewing the policy and are saying they won't accept "extreme forms of political correctness".

Dudley saves Piglet's bacon

At 7:09 pm, October 31, 2005 , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hmmm. I seem to remember that St George was from what is today Turkey so perhaps shows we English are not an insular island race? However, I now find a good reason to be offended by the flag of St George becauase on this page it tells me that the Armenian (Christian) polulation of his birth plase were destroyed in the Armenian Genocide (by Moslems). From now on, I will wonder when England (and Georgia) will suffer the same fate. My offense at something rather more recent than Richard the Lionhart reducing the size of the near eastern cod pieces 9 and a half hundred years ago is not misconstrued but accurate. In fact I understand the word "ethnic cleansing" was first used to describe the genocide of Armenians in Nagorno Karabakh in the 1990s. While we debate "offense", the attemt to wipe out infidels continues in our time. Is that denial offensive?

[BTW I visited a school in NK in 1996 that had been destroyed and now partly rebuilt after a grad missile attack in the "ethnic cleansing". When I said, "surely they knew it was a school?", the reply was, "of course, they aimed where they knew the people would be and many died". It made sense to the Armenians but to us western visitors we could only cry and not understand how such acts are possible intentionally. Even more alarming is the fact that now the aggressors do not just deny their genocide they actually accuse the Armenians of genocide. Incredible!]


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